On Thu, 15 May 2008 07:41:31 -0400, jeff <jeff@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>salty@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 May 2008 16:54:15 -0700, Gordon <gazuum@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>> dougking888@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>>>> Gordon wrote:
>>>>> I just had a 27' sailboat survey for insurance purposes and ran
into
>>>>> some problems.
>>>>> Number 1. The propane tank along with its associated plumbing and
>>>>> solenoid valve sit in the anchor locker forward. This locker is
vented
>>>>> at the bottom thru the hull above the water line which also acts as
the
>>>>> water drain.
>>>> Sounds like a kludge, but it may be more space-efficient to only
build
>>>> one water/va**** tight compartment and use it for both.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ... The running light wiring runs to a terminal strip at the
>>>>> top of the locker. The surveyor says this is a no no, that no
electrical
>>>>> wiring can be in this locker! In that case, how can they justify the
>>>>> solenoid being in there?
>>>> Because the solenoid is (or darn well better be) a non-sparking type.
>>>> It is inside the compartment so that it can shut off propane *before*
>>>> it gets outside that compartment and into the rest of the boat.
>>>>
>>>> If the solenoid doesn't say 'spark free' or 'marine rated' or
>>>> something like that, replace that too even if the surveyor didn't
>>>> recommend it.
>>>>
>>>> As for the contact strip- that's shouldn't be used in running light
>>>> wiring... shouldn't be installed in a place guaranteed to get wet if
>>>> not immersed... and could make a spark if contacted while live. It
>>>> should be easy to replace the running light wires, without a contact
>>>> strip in line.
>>>>
>>>> As for "no wires in the propane locker" I don't think the ABYC
>>>> recommendation is that strict. It's a good idea to not have any wires
>>>> not specifically needed, like the solenoid wiring. But if there is
>>>> absolutely no possible conceivable way to run the wires to the
running
>>>> lights without going thru the anchor/propane locker, then call the
>>>> ABYC and ask for an interpretation of their standard.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Second problem. This boat was converted from a diesel inboard to
a
>>>>> Honda outboard. The diesel tank was fitted and vented for gas usage.
>>>> That was a bad idea too, for several reasons.
>>>>
>>>>> There is no bilge to speak of in this boat, but the surveyor says
the
>>>>> boat needs a bilge blower because of the gas tank!
>>>> And he's right.
>>>> Some alternatives: replace the diesel... use an external gas tank,
>>>> kept in the cockpit or aft deck or some place NOT inside the hull;
>>>> that way you can use the former diesel fuel tank for something else.
>>>>
>>>> Gordon don't take this wrong, but I hope you didn't pay a lot for
this
>>>> boat. It sounds like it was owned & maintained by one of those
>>>> "independent thinkers" who are often a danger to themselves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Roger Long" wrote:
>>>>> He's right on both counts.
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks Roger.... oh wait, you meant the surveyor ;)
>>>>
>>>>> The solonoid is probably designed to operated in an explosive
environment.
>>>>> All that terminal strip needs is contact with a metalic object, like
a tin
>>>>> foil hat, to make your boat a big fat statistic.
>>>>>
>>>> What do you think of running wires.... properly mounted & protected
of
>>>> course... thru the propane locker?
>>>>
>>>>> .... You can have this stuff fixed before the insurance company
>>>>> even replies. What kind of risk do you think it's going to make
them think
>>>>> you are if you bother them trying to argue against a surveyor's
>>>>> recommendations? I wouldn't be surprised if they just canceled you
instead
>>>>> of wasting their time.
>>>>>
>>>> Excellent point.
>>>>
>>>> Besides, it will be a lot more profitable in the long run to continue
>>>> going over the boat with a fine-toothed comb to find all the little
>>>> problems that the surveyor missed! And this isn't intended as an
>>>> insult, it is impossible to catch every single thing on even a small
>>>> boat.
>>>>
>>>> Fresh Breezes- Doug Kin
>>> Update on the survey
>>> Wires in the propane locker were butt spliced and sealed with
silicone.
>>>
>>> Blower in the gas tank compartment
>>> Not necessary because, as this is an outboard engine, the ignition
>>> source is gone. And to add a blower would be adding an ignition
source!
>>> Gordon
>>
>> Incorrect. The exemption for an outboard would be for a ****table tank
that is
>> not in a confined space. You have a permanently installed tank. The
blower would
>> NOT add an ignition source, and the blower would be designed and built
>> specifically for safe operation in an explosive atmosphere.
>>
>>
>I would agree in theory, but I couldn't find anything in my (old) ABYC
>standards that said that unequivocally - it seems to depend on the
>location and ventilation of the tank. In fact, I don't think the
>outboard powered version of my boat has blowers, although in that case
>there is no bilge under the fuel tank.
In this guy's case, it doesn't matter. The surveyor said it and the
insurance company is unlikely to go against him. It would be FAR
better to add the blower to make sure the insurance company never even
has to know about it, as it may raise a red flag on the whole boat.
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